yum. gotta love the iowa state fair. >> anthony having his cake and eating too. complete lack of cynicism about every aspect of his job which is isvering politics new thing in the world. thanks store staying with us tonight, now it's time for the ed show. good evening, americans and welcome to the ed show, tonight live from minneapolis. according to polling out today, rick perry, the texas governor is the newly minted front-runner for the republican nomination. today perry called the president of the united states the greatest threat to america. the president is now responding. and tonight the democrats' last stand in the wisconsin recall election battle. we'll have all the results, this is the ed show. let's get to work. >> governor perry is going to have to fight.

>> even karl rove can't argue. rick perry is going to waltz to the republican nomination. yesterday the president told us where he stants on organized labor. >> i'll have the retired teacher who asked the president about collective bargaining if she liked the answer he gave. and tonight, wisconsin goes to the polls for the state's final two wisconsin recall elections. scott walker's radical agenda may hang in the balance. tonight all the late breaking results and john nichols of the nation magazine. >> good evening, folks, good to have you with us tonight. rick perry has hit a new low. president obama is the greatest threat to america? >> i think the greatest threat to our country right now is this president who's trying to spend our way out of this disaster. >> this comment comes one day

after he told iowa voters we need a president who loves america. perry doesn't apologize for the overheated rhetoric coming out of his mouth. he doubles down. >> you need to ask him. >> i'm saying, you're a good reporter, go ask him. >> perry is on president obama's radar screen. the president was asked about the governor's reckless rhetoric today. like always, the president took the high road. >> mr. perry just got in the presidential race and i think that everybody who runs for president, it probably takes them a little bit of time before they start realizing this isn't like running for governor, senator or congress. and you have to be more careful about what you say. i'll cut him some slack. he's only been at it for a few days now. >> president obama doesn't have to get down in the mud with perry, not yet.

he can't play mr. nice guy with someone who will say anything to play to his base. perry is playing for keeps, and he's not shy about it. america has got its first taste of how dangerous perry is when he said this about ben bernanke. >> if this guy prints more money between now and the election, i don't know what you all would do to him in iowa, but we'd treat him pretty ugly down in texas. printing more money to play politics at this particular time in american history is almost treasonous in my opinion. >> words like treason, i mean, just roll off perry's lips, he knows that's exactly what the republican base is hungry for. base republicans want to crush everyone in their path.

last night we played a clip of governor perry talking about the debt being a black cloud over this country. we did not present the full context of those statements and we should have. here's the full clip. let's get it right. >> i'm a probusiness governor. i don't make any apologies about it, and i will be a probusiness president. getting america back to work is is the most important issue that faces this country. being able to pay off 14.5 or $16 trillion worth of debt. that big black cloud that hangs over america, that debt that is so monstrous. there's only one way you get rid of it that's practical, that makes sense. that is to free up america. free up american entrepreneurs. >> no doubt about it, it was a mistake, and we regret the error. on this particular statement, we should not have included it on our coverage of his overheated

rhetoric. that's our mistake. the full context of all of these other statements should who he is and really what he stands for. the master of dirty politics even thinks perry's rhetoric is over the top. >> it's his first time on the national stage. and it was a very unfortunate comment. you don't accuse the chairman of the federal reserve of being a traitor to his country of being guilty of treason and suggesting that we treat him pretty ugly in texas, that's not again a presidential statement. >> governor perry's going to have to fight the impression that he's a cowboy from texas. >> there you have it. the man who started a whisper campaign against john mccain and had federal prosecutors fired for political reasons thinks that perry is acting unpresidential? rove and perry have a long history of bad blood in the lone star state. in the '80s and '90s, no texas republican could take a breath

without his blessing. when bush and rove went to washington, perry started to rip bush in private conversations, and it got back to rove and that's where the whole thing really gets ugly. rove is trying to pretend those days are over, he's still taking shots at perry from the cheap seats. >> he moved heaven and earth to get rick perry elected as his running mate. >> i know from the perspective of the former president, he has a cordial, personal strong friendship of nearly two decades of the governor, i think that's true for the governor too. why he falls into this pattern of sounding like he's dismissive is not smart. >> rove really has become the republican money train and king maker. perry might not need him. he's that strong. the latest poll shows perry with a commanding double-digit lead

over mitt romney and michele bachmann. i know he's off the rails, but the republican party is full of wacky talkers. republicans know president obama is not in the best shape with his base right now, so they're going as far right as they possibly can. they think president obama is weak. he doesn't stand up to the republicans. so republicans are out there saying, well, heck, let's get a good radical in there. perry hasn't been one to debate against the republicans, and he has already running a general election. take a look at a portion of his campaign video. >> record debt. and the president's refusal to control spending led to our nation's credit rating being downgraded for the first time in history. hope is on the horizon. not the empty rhetoric of hope, but a record that gives us hope. that leader, rick perry. >> you know, i think that perry is going to do one thing. he's going to make president obama a lot better. not to be degrading to the

president, but i think this might light a fire with the president's campaign. perry can try to hang the economy on president obama, but the president can make perry own his own record. now, perry he's one of these guys, i mean, he thinks texas is everything. he's proud that texas is number one in job creation. let me show you what else texas is number one in. the lone star state leads the nation in population of people without health care and children without health care. they're number one and carbon dioxide emissions and toxic chemicals released into the water. texas is the top spot for executions. perry's policies have produced some other great numbers. like 50th in people 25 and older without a high school diploma. 43rd in the country in graduation rate. 41st in the union membership. 49th in average credit score, and fourth in child poverty.

it would seem to me that the democrats especially the white house in the obama campaign would have some pretty easy words to find to really describe what mr. perry is all about. although they're getting a lot of help with the way this guy's talking as of late. perry has not done a very good job in texas. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, will rick perry be the gop presidential nominee in 2012? text a for yes b for no. you can go to our blog at msnbc.com. i'll bring you results later on in the show. joining me now is jim moore, author of the upcoming book, adios. why rick perry will make america miss george w. bush. he's also a contribute iror to

huffington post. i think our audience and the country may be intrigued about the bad blood between rove and rick perry. how bad a blood is it? and if perry does get the nomination, what would that do to rove's position? your thoughts. >> i think ed right now, what carl's trying to do is to destroy rick perry. he knows that if rick perry is the nominee, he's not going to be playing on the big football field. he's firing shots at him from the sidelines, hoping to derail him. whether he can do that or not is doubtful. there is bad blood, and it goes all the way back to, people need to know it is karl rove who casts rick perry on the american political landscape. he turned him from a legislator who is a fairly moderate democrat into a conservative republican. he helped rick become the lieutenant governor of texas. but there was a moment when texas had an opening for a united states senator, and rick wanted to be that person, and carl chose kay bailey hutchison,

and that caused him some problems. when rick was running for lieutenant governor, and george w. bush was running for re-election, karl wanted mr. bush to be able to run up the numbers, rick was in a close race, he wanted to go negative, carl wouldn't let him, rick won. again, that caused problems. and then we get later on into all of this, and rick makes his unguarded comments about george bush being a country club republican. george bush not really being a conservative fiscally or socially, and then karl jumps over and runs kay bailey hutchison's race for governor in the gop primary against rick. so they're completely separate now. i can't envision any moment when they're sitting at the same table. >> i guess -- i want to know, your opinion, does rick perry need karl rove? >> no. >> does he have to have karl rove on this team to get this job done?

>> he doesn't. carl has this crossroads super pack out of dallas. it's raising a lot of money. i think what ultimately happens as time goes by, the donations to this super pack go down when rick becomes the apparent nominee. and carl may ultimately end up riding shotgun on the perry campaign and going out and spending this money on issues, advertising in places that are swing states and helping perry and doing it in a de facto way. i don't see him being at the table and frankly, i don't think rick needs him. >> do you think rick perry will get the nomination? >> i mean, iowa, the caucus coming up? how will he do in new hampshire? will he smoke them down in south carolina? do you think he's going to win this thing? >> i think it's a waltz for rick perry. he's great at the podium, he is going to have very broad appeal. remember he didn't campaign in iowa for the straw poll, he's

going to campaign for the caucus, he's going to do well with the fundamentalists in iowa. new hampshire will be a bit closer since that's a bedroom community almost to massachusetts. mitt romney will do well in massachusetts, but rick is going to clean up in south carolina, the week after that, we're looking at florida and nevada. he's going to do well in the south, and super tuesday march sixth, after nevada and florida, is very heavily weighted toward the south. rick is going to sweep the south. he may wrap this up prior to super tuesday which is march 6th. >> the south is north carolina and virginia, states that went to president obama. you think rick perry would beat president obama in those two states? he would sweep the south, take all southern states? >> in the general election, it's going to be a different thing. i think it's going to be difficult for the president in south carolina. and i think virginia is going to be a swing state. rick perry is going to be very

strong in the conservative states in the south. but it's going to be a fight for him against places like virginia. >> thank you so much tonight. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen, i want to know what you think. president chris christie? what about president paul ryan? neither of them are running yet. top republicans are desperate to make it happen. last night we played you a remarkable answer from president obama about collective bargaining, now folks, you know, i will not done talking about this, i'm not bad mouthing anybody, but i think i need to profoundly point this out. we'll bring you the retired schoolteacher who asked the question the key question on the stump in iowa yesterday. and as you have seen at the bottom of the screen, polls are closed in wisconsin, the recall elections finishing up tonight, the final two in district 12 jim

holperin leads. bob wirch is trailing his opponent with just 18% of the precincts reporting. we'll keep refreshing the numbers and let you know when they come in.

here's another update from wisconsin, in district 22, bob wirch has tightened the race. he's trailing now his republican opponent by two points with 25% of the precincts reporting. is this the new wave of politics? is this how it's going to be in america? congressman paul ryan, this guy went out and held 19 town hall meetings in wisconsin last april. pretty normal. and his constituents got in his face and told him what they thought of his plan to phase out

medicare. >> it's not trickle down. >> we do tax the top. >> well, folks, it's not going to be business as usual, you see, ryan is going to now appear at another public meeting in wisconsin next month. this time, wisconsinites are going to have to pay $15 to attend the event hosted by a local rotary club? well, that's one way to cut down on the amount of people who want to boo you in public and get in your face. republican congressman will appear at a lunch next week. the 15 dollar fee is necessary to pay for the cost of the food. ryan may have bigger things on his plate. is a run for the white house in

his future? that's next. and later in psycho talk, michele bachmann's tribute to elvis goes wrong.

i think it's 50/50 paul ryan runs. we'll know in a couple weeks. i would like to have the option of considering him at least. >> that was bill crystal on fox news, you may remember crystal is one of the establishment conservatives who helped pave the way for vice presidential nominee sarah palin. now he's doing the same thing

for paul ryan. crystal's magazine ran a story today reporting that ryan is strongly considering a run for president. and other party leaders are once again talking it up -- chris christie as a presidential candidate. >> palin has a pretty active schedule in early september, i think chris christie and paul ryan are going to look at it again. i wouldn't be surprised if all three of them gave serious consideration whether or not they do at the end. >> the push for ryan and chris sti is coming from the top of the gop. karl rove makes it clear that republican king makers are nervous about the current field. >> you don't want these candidates running in the republican primary that it becomes impossible for them to win the general election. people want to win, they don't want somebody who goes so far to the extremes of either party that they lack a chance to carry out a victory off in november.

>> let's bring in michael medved. and mike pappantonio. great to have you with us tonight. i have you on the program, because you always seem to give us a straight up answer without the bullet points. >> i try. >> are you nervous about the current field? do you want candidates like ryan and christie to get into the mix? what do you make of all of this? >> yes, and yes. look, ed, you watched that debate thursday night. i wrote about it for daily beast. 2 was a disaster for the republican party mitt romney was the only one who came across unscathed. everyone came off smaller. they divide add tension and the limelight, and a very, very few of them looked presidential. and yes, that's a problem. and yes, i am enthusiastic about

more candidates, i'd like to see chris christie run, i'd very much like to see paul ryan run. and there is no talk, hold on to your seats, marco rubio, a lot of support for marco rubio out there. right now, the reason all this is happening, president obama looks terribly weak and terribly vulnerable. a lot of people -- >> why is everyone jumping in. if president obama looks so weak, why aren't all these guys jumping in, if they think he's so easy to beat. do you think the gop is worried about the current field, and that's why rove keeps chipping away at rick perry? >> rove attacked rick perry because he knows rick perry doesn't have the smarts to pull this off. more importantly, he knows what rick perry said before rick perry came out on the national scene. the short list is, he wanted to ban social security, ban medicare, he wanted to ban

teaching evolution in schools. interestingly enough he wanted to ban america. he wanted texas to secede from the united states. >> he never said it. >> mike -- >> it's not true. >> let me finish what i'm saying. >> he didn't say it. >> he said in part, because he did -- he didn't have the intellect to understand what a shallow simple ton proclamation that was, and you're worried about it, because you know that's going to come up in this campaign. and you have to defend this simple ton shallow statement. more importantly, michael, this is a guy who said, we should abandon the 16th and 17th amendment to the u.s. constitution. and you know when you go on your radio show, you have to tell your listeners the front-runner candidate, perry, your guy, is the guy who said, we need to abandon the 16th and 17th amendment. we can't have a standing army in the united states. >> i will agree with you about this. i think that the biggest problem for republicans right now is

keeping the focus. the focus has to be on the economy, it has to be on jobs. that's what americans care about, they care about jobs. and they care about president obama's record in not creating jobs, not lowering the unemployment rate. anything we get involved with, whether it's the 16th amendment whether it's the income tax amendment or 17th amendment. we should not get involved with those issues, those are distractions. >> does that mean -- what about rick perry. rick perry is out chipping away at the president saying he doesn't love the country. that he's dangerous and all that kind of stuff, and he -- skyrocketing day one in the polls. what about that? >> well, first of all, look, i think that rick perry's statements about ben bernanke are regrettable. he shouldn't have said it. what he said about the president, he was responding to a question that was part of a discussion. the proper way of saying it, is he believes the president's policies are a threat to the

nation. i will agree with you, that it's columnsdy and wrong for anyone to say that president obama himself as a person was a threat to the country. >> it's pretty clear to me that karl rove does not want rick perry around and he's searching for someone else. >> karl rove knows that rick perry is the same oddball who said that the bp criminal disaster that took place in the gulf of mexico was an act of god because he had to say that. he said bp was not wrong at all. karl rove knows that rick perry has more statements like that than we can count. and a guy like michael here, has to defend rick perry on the air, and -- >> no, i don't. >> on my side of it, i go back, and this is like shooting fish in a barrel. >> michael. >> wait, wait, wait a second. add chris christie to this debate. what about that guy, how much fun are we going to have with that guy? the truth is, karl rove knows,

the republican party -- >> gentlemen. >> disastrous disarray. >> james moore earlier tonight on this program, and on my radio show earlier today said that rick perry is going to waltz to the nomination. michael medved, are you okay with that? >> it's not true, it's wide open, and with very strong potential new candidates. there will be a huge rush if paul ryan gets in. >> all rights we'll have you back. i like the mix. great to have you with us tonight. thanks so much. today, i went out and interviewed a man on the street. hey, that's me. later, the queen of the tea party wishes a happy birthday to the king of rock 'n' roll. the problem is, she did it on the day of his death. wisconsin result, in district 22 we have a major development, the associated

press is now projecting bob wirch the democrat incumbent from district 22 will hold on to his seat. the other race is sun desided. john nichols of the nation magazine is waiting in the wings. [ female announcer ] kiss everything you know about cookies goodbye.

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welcome back to the ed show, and thanks for watching. here on the streets of minneapolis, yesterday on the program we did a segment man on the street.

i just wanted to get a flavor of what people were thinking about president obama on this bus tour in the midwest. every person that we asked, if you had a chance to talk to president obama, what would you say? they all took a deep breath. republican, democrat, male, female, all walks of life, all different professions, about 25 people, they're just exhausted. they're exhausted with our government, they're exhausted with trying to figure out what is going on in washington and that's why there's a 13% approval rating of the congress right now. and that's what the president's up against. now, the president himself has said in my opinion, i'll be the man on the street tonight, he said some pretty questionable things as of late. now, here's the president today saying, i think all the right things about the american worker. >> it's always a mistake to bet against america. it's always a mistake to bet against the american worker. it's always a mistake to bet against the american worker,

farmer, small business owner the american people. >> that's confidence in the american worker, farmer, apple pie, the american workering business, everything else. but the president yesterday in iowa asked the middle class to take a haircut. i'm troubled by this statement. he says to my friends in the public sector unions, it's important that you are on the side of reform, where reform is needed. because the truth of the matter is, is that at a time when everybody is belt tightening, there's nothing wrong with the union saying to itself, you know what, we know budgets are hard right now, let's sit down and say we're willing to negotiate so that we're making some sacrifices to maintain the number of teachers in the classroom and keep class sizes at a reasonable level. the president is asking teachers to give up more in their pension in their health care. that could be 60, $70 a month.

we fail as a country to ask the wealthiest americans, can you give us another 60 or $70,000 a month to help us balance the budget? do your fair share? and then the president comes back and talks about shared sacrifice. what are you talking about? how much more can the middle class give in this country as we live in the greediest generation of american history. everything goes to the top, the income disparity that's taking place in our economy right now issen conscionable. for you to go out and say, the middle class has got to understand that we have to have shared sacrifice, and middle class wage earners have to give up more? i can't sit here as a liberal and say, i'm okay with that. that's my man on the street. coming up on the ed show, we're going to ask the teacher who asked that question of the president in iowa yesterday, how she felt about his answer. later on in the program,

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welcome back to the ed show. in my man on the street, i read you a part of the president's answer to a question about collective bargaining. now i want to play you part of the question, here it is. >> what can you do to help support collective bargaining in the states and most of all, support the public sector unions, the middle class, many of whom are union members. >> the president started out by saying, i think a lot of right things. he said the right of workers to form a union is part of what built america's great middle class, and gave us a minimum wage, it's why we have weekends, vacations. all that good stuff. he said, it's why we have basic protections on the job. the president also said this.

>> there are a whole range of things that people take for granted even if they're not in a union that they won't it have had if it had not been for collective bargaining, i do say to my friends in the public sector unions, it is important that you are on the side of reform where reform is needed. as long as it's a conversation as opposed to it simply being imposed and collective bargaining rights being stripped away. so i think it's important -- remember we talked about shared sacrifice and burden sharing. well, this is an area where there's got to be burden sharing as well. >> a real pleasure to bring in the retired schoolteacher who asked president obama that question. bev great to have you with us. why did you ask the president that particular question? what motivated you to do that? >> i'm a retired teacher, i'm also a retired employee of the

south dakota education association and the iowa state education association, and i'm concerned about what's been happening in other states where i've seen public employees, members of unions, but public employees being attacked for their wages, for their benefits, and i had real concerns about that, i also have friends in wisconsin who had been on the front lines for the fights for public employees, and i wanted to see what would obama say about what was happening in the fight, those fights, and where would he come out in support for those public employees. >> and the obvious question. were you satisfied with his answer? >> i think i would have liked to have seen him gone further. i do understand that he is a politician, he gave a political answer. but when he talked about the shared sacrifices or the shared burden, i have some concerns

about that. because i know from working with teachers and educational support professionals, that they have shared a burden. they have sacrificed. there's a school district here in iowa where the teachers are taking a roll back in salaries for this year. and i know lots and lots of school employees where they would -- during bargaining, what they would do is they would be willing to take less so they could have insurance benefits. they've sacrificed and what people fail to remember are those employees are also taxpayers. and -- >> well -- >> many times we look at union and they're taxpayers. >> no doubt about it. the president said that collective bargaining is important. i think fundamentally he really believes in it. but the question is, is he fighting hard enough for it?

and when he talks about reform, what do you think he's talking about? does he mean that we have to reform the benefits? we have to reform the health care, the salaries, so we can have more teachers, so we can have -- less -- fewer citizens in the classroom? what reforms is he talking about in your opinion? >> i can't read -- i don't know what was in his mind when he made that comment. obviously, the things that have been taking place in schools and in public employees across the country is that there have been layoffs. there have been salaries, have not increased to keep pace with what's been going on in the economy. a lot of people will say, they're still overpaid, they don't work as long as we do. that's not right. and if everyone who has gone through school has a teacher that they can look to, i would hope that they can look to and

say, i learned something from that teacher. i think our public employees and our teachers have sacrificed. >> they have. there's no question about it. congratulations to you, you were in a situation to ask the president the critical question about the middle class in this country and no other media person for months on end has been in that position or seen it, deemed it important enough to ask that very question. and i have to say, as i said last night, i'm troubled by the answer. i am troubled by the answer. he wants the middle classers in this country to take another haircut and be on the right side of reforms. i need some more definition on that. if the president's going to do a bus tour, he needs to be crystal clear on where he stands with workers. when this administration is extending the tax cuts and this administration -- other democrats goo out and say, we have this debt commission, we're not going to be raising taxes,

but then then he says the workers have to be on the right side of reforms, and we have to be a part of shared sacrifice. i think that is a dangerous message. thank you for joining us tonight. i appreciate it. another opportunity to have average americans here on the ed show. michele bachmann's belated birthday wish to elvis presley is one of many campaign trail flubs. we'll play you her greatest hits next in psycho talk. the polls are closed in wisconsin. the associated press is proje projecting that bob wirch will retain his seat. he has survived his recall. the overall tally so far in the nine recall elections is four wins for the democrats, for wins for the republicans. in the one remain iing race, ji holperin is in the lead.

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in psycho talk tonight, michele bachmann is all shook up about the facts during her stump speech today in spartanburg, south carolina. you see, michele bachmann says she's such a big fan of elvis presley, that today she decided to play the king of rock 'n' roll a very special tribute. >> before we get started, let's all say happy birthday to elvis presley today. happy birthday. >> we played you a little bit of promised land when we pulled up.

you can't do better than elvis presley. we thought we'd celebrate his birthday, as we get started celebrating the steak our country back tour. >> that crowd was lovin' it. there's really only one problem with this whole thing. take a look at our notable elvis presley dates calendar. it looks like the presley's actual birthday is in january. and if we switch two today's date, august 16th, it isn't the king's birthday, it's the 34th anniversary of his schedule. the day he was found dead in graceland in a latrine. when michele bachmann figured out she was caught in a trap and couldn't walk out, she said she forgot her teleprompter. just like the time she said this. >> what i want them to know is,just like john wayne was from waterloo, iowa, that's the kind of spirit i have too.

>> turns out john wayne gacy is from waterloo, iowa, not john wayne the actor. then there was the time michele bachmann said the revolutionary war started in new hampshire, not massachusetts. bachman is either routinely -- i mean, routinely getting bad information from her staff, and she's just not that interested in having the right information. either way, even suspicious minds know michele bachmann's mixup is a heap of psycho talk. they ran out of ballots in kenosha today. it's the final elections in wisconsin's recall summer. what will this mean for the reign of governor scott walker in the state. we have the latest updates and results coming in. x does your buisness have the financial control it needs?

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234z witne s in wisconsin, the associated press projects jim holperin the winner. he joins bob wirch in the winner's circle tonight. ♪ let me make you smile ♪ let me do a few tricks ♪ some old and then some new tricks ♪ ♪ i'm very versatile ♪ so let me entertain you ♪ and we'll have a real good time ♪ [ male announcer ] the new hp touchpad starting at $399.99. ♪ [ kate ] can't believe i have high blood pressure. what's that thing? another medication. ♪ i really should have taken my shoes off before i got weighed. [ female announcer ] you've got a lot on your mind.

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historic recall elections come to annd tonight. two democrats trying to keep their state senate seats from republican challengers. >> it is a summer of outside money, fake candidates and, of course, otto yunkerman style politics. we have the results in the final two recall elections. bob wirch topping jonathan steitz. and jim holperin thought to be more vulnerable tops kim simac. both used scott walker's attack on public workers as the reason why we've been having these historic races. there have been nine wins in all. last week the dems ousted two

republican senators and all three up for recall kept their jobs. so let me ask you, where is the huge victory for governor scott walker? there is none. the imagine is what it is, the math is just not there for walker. time now to call in washington correspondent of the nation magazine, john nichols. good to have you with us tonight. i don't know, i go back to miss harper's fourth grade class. she was teaching this new math. where's the victory in this recall season? >> there is no republican victory. let's be very clear about what has happened. over the course of a month and a half or a little under a month and a half. wisconsin has had a series of recall elections. democrats have won the majority of the recall elections. they have also won the majority of votes cast in all of these districts across the state. and they have created a

situation in the state legislature where now democrats hold 16 seats, one short of a majority, and there is a maverick republican who voted against the governor on collective bargaining. creating a reality that we now have a collect -- procollective bargaining majority in the state senate. that doesn't end walker's reign, it doesn't check and balance him on every issue, it does suggest pretty clearly, that democrats have achieved a lot of their goals that they started out trying to get to. >> we should point out in these two districts, the money continued to come from the sky, did it not? >> there were more outsiders throwing money at this one. speak to that tonight, john, how intense was it? >> well, northern wisconsin, where jim holperin was just re-elect traditionally has small town politics, you campaign in the park, you hang a sign from a

phone pole. this year it looks like as much as $5 million was spent in that rural district down in southeastern wisconsin in wirch's district it looks to be at least 2.5 million. the koch brothers were in, the amway de boss was in. literally spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to defeat these democratic incumbents, but it didn't work. >> you've known governor walker for a while, do you think this is going to move him to a moderate position? do you think he will be a negotiator? and also, what does this mean for his recall? what do you make of it? >> well, governor walker is going to have to moderate, maybe not by choice, but by reality. in the state senate now, you have a majority of senators, 16 democrats and at least one or two republicans who have expressed clear discomfort with the governor's extreme policies, they will have the ability to

check and balance him on issues like right to work laws. privatization of education. >> does this fire up the recall effort do you think? do you think there's enough signal here that he needs to go? do you think republicans and democrats in wisconsin are feeling that tonight? >> can i tell you something, ed, the democrats and the independents that are uncomfortable with scott walker, and the republicans that are uncomfortable with scott walker, certainly feel pretty good tonight. >> john nichols of the nation magazine. >> they had a terrific week. >> they certainly have. >> great to have you with us tonight. tonight in our survey, i asked, will rick perry be the gop presidential nominee in 2012? 43% of you said yes. 57% said no. that's the in the last 24 hours, rick perry has accused the federal reserve of treason and blown mitt romney a kiss.